terrorism is futile

[ninjabear]

Lucifer666: You think the U.S. media has a pro-Israel bias?
Funny, I after watching the NBC news this evening, I thought I was actually watching Al Jazziera (or however it's spelled).
The "Death to America, Death to Israel" banner held up for the cameras was bad, but now I've seen everything.
An Arab living in Israel lost two of his children in a Hezbollah rocket attack, YET HE STILL BLAMES ISRAEL!

Don't expect me to feel anything for the people who were dancing in the streets on 9/11---they were only angry that the tape of them celebrating made the TV news.
I'm fed up; time to go Klingon.

[lucifer666 (deleted)]

No harm to you Ninjabear but I'm surprised at you I thought you were more open minded than that .....all those people that were bombed and killed were not dancing in the streets after 9/11 and even if they were does that make them less human that you can detach any sentiment of regret or sympathy towards them. After all are we not the ones who show the way not become like those we believe threaten us.
I do think your media is biased my friend and being honest NBC showing some footage of some crowds holding a banner stating "Death to America, Death to Israel" happens all the time in all world news programmes .....I hate to say it buddy but thats not propaganda thats just giving you a slice of the more balanced news you should be getting normally .....American people can't just shut off news it doesn't like or is not pro American. As for the Arab still blaming Israel ...its hard to judge without seeing the actual segment of news but did you ever think that he may feel though Hezbollah pulled the trigger yet Israel forced their hand.
I just don't get the American mentality sometimes. Are you not a bit nervous or unsure both as a person and as a country in a whole that your views on this may be way off base here after all America is the only country in the world that hasn't called from the beginning a seize fire well except Tony Blair (I wouldn't even say America have UK. support because Blair doesn't even have it) The United Nations has even condemned Israel's disproportionate reaction. I know this if my country Ireland was saying one thing and the rest of the world was saying another ....it wouldn't necessarily make me say Ireland was then wrong but it would make me rethink and investigate why these people think differently. Just a thought bud!!

[iswallowedabug (deleted)]

lucifer666 wrote: I do think your media is biased my friend

Everyone has a bias -- whether it be the American media, or any
country's media. It's also unfair to lump all the American news
shows together. You get a very different picture if you're watching
CNN or Fox, for example, and if you're watching a 24 hour news
channel or just nightly news coverage. News reporting has become
entertainment these days, so of course the media slants it to a bias
that they think will sell better.

Ironically, one of the "fairest" sources for news I've seen is the
political satire/commentary on the "fake news" show "the Daily Show."
They're trying to be funny, so they poke fun at EVERYONE, regardless
of who it is, and their work on "Mess o' potamia" has been quite
good.

lucifer666 wrote: I just don't get the American mentality sometimes. Are you not a bit nervous or unsure both as a person and as a country in a whole that your views on this may be way off base here

Are you under the impression that everyone in America agrees on
everything? I think the image of the "average" American in the
international community is far off the mark. Yes, it's embarrassing that
this country that talks about democracy has such low voter turnout, but
at the same our last two presidential elections show just how deeply
the country is divided. A few people are in power and have taken
decisive actions, but the country has not come to a consensus on
how America is handling things internationally by far.

As for your comments about not having sympathy for the people who
were dancing in the streets, let me remind you that even your oft-
quoted, beloved Captain Picard had his moments of human emotion
that express sentiments of pain and vengeance:

"We’ve made too many compromises already; too many retreats. They
invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds and we
fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further!
And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -First Contact

[lucifer666 (deleted)]

British andd Irish news is pretty much fair down the board I think which is why I have sympathy for Israel but can't condone what they are doing today

Fair enough iswallowedabug I know there are those in America who disagree with the foreign policy of America and pleas ebelieve me I am not anti-American here even though at the moment it is sometimes hard not to be and we are Western Democratic peoples ......so if thats how some are here what are they like in the Middle East.

As for the Quote it was a momentary lapse and he then came to his senses when he was compared to Captain Ahab ....does America really want to lose and risk everything over an obsession, does Israel?

[ninjabear]

"Luke you're going to learn that many of the truths we cling to, depend on our own point of view."
Obi-Wan Kenobi
"We love Freedom, to question, to resist oppression...to them it is an alien way of life, they will never accept."
Lorne Greene as Commander Adama,
from the real Battlestar Galactica

[lucifer666 (deleted)]

You want to quote Star Wars I'll quote you Star Wars Chow

“Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering.†~ Yoda


OBI-WAN: But he still has much to learn, Master. His
abilities have made him... ell, arrogant.

YODA: Yes, yes. It's a flaw more and more common among
Jedi. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more
experienced ones.

"You must unlearn what you have learned" ~ Yoda


"We love Freedom, to question, to resist oppression...to them it is an alien way of life, they will never accept."

But different people have different ideas of what true freedom is .....what questions are allowed to be asked what oppression can be resisted ......The Western World is no different in this regard

[ninjabear]

Americans are loud, proud, full of life and firmly believe anything really worth doing should be done on a grand scale; I apologize for none of it.
My grandfather was a blacksmith by trade.
My father was a steelworker for 42 years.
My only claim is a folded steel ninja-to, but I know enough to understand one thing; stainless steel is an alloy. Elements brittle or weak on their own, combined in proper measure to make a metal that is hard yet flexible, that holds an edge and does not rust.
We of this Earth are stronger as a whole, as a people, as stainless steel; but one element cannot refuse to combine, or there is no steel.
If they cannot learn to play well with others, then roll in the Daleks.

[lucifer666 (deleted)]

ninjabear wrote: Americans are loud, proud, full of life and firmly believe anything .

Hee hee I think thats were your quote should end bud ....its definitely more accurate ....

Did you ever read a book called Animal Farm Bear it was written by George Orwell ....I'm sure you have .......but in that story when the animals gain their freedom from the farmer they write seven laws for themselves ....good laws.....with paint on the side of the barn for all to see and uphold such as .... No Animal shall sleep in a bed, .....No animal shall drink alcohol,.......No animal shall kill any other animal,......All animals are equal. however as time went by through various tragedies and corruption the normal animals started to notice some alterations on these laws like ........No animal shall drink alcohol............. TO EXCESS!!............... No animal shall kill any other animal. ........WITHOUT CAUSE!!! All animals are equal............. BUT SOME ANIMALS ARE MORE EQUAL THAN OTHERS!!
Yes Orwell was describing Communism but ultimately I think he was describing oppression and giving a warning for every nation no matter whether they are communist or Democratic .....that if you don't keep your leaders accountable or keep certain basic laws absolute you could end up becoming the exact opposite of what you inspired to be. When you start saying everyone has freedom ........but some don't because they are suspicious! ......... everyone has the right to a fair trial ...but some people with darker skin do not!! ........... No person should kill another... unless they live in a far away land and don't embrace our Democracy!! You totally walk over what your forefathers wanted to create in America ....the laws they were proud of ....the good laws. The paint is wet and dripping on the side of the barn bear.......Can't you see it???

[ninjabear]

Believe me Bub, I wish I could get everyone to embrace my "vote against the incumbent" policy, but everyone's free to be right, or wrong.
"We hold these thruths to be self evident..." Freedom is an absolute, yet there must be limits to it or there is anarchy.
Stoning, "honor" killings, seeking shelter in religion for murdering innocent women and children---there was a commercial running in the States a while back. In the ad our former First Lady innocently outraged many by personalizing some of the 9/11 victims...tell me how a four-year-old girl so offended Allah that she deserved to die on Flight 174, and I'll be quiet.
When some wank-job holds up a banner and screams for your blood, you'll expect us to back you up---they not have noticed you're little island yet, but you're still the Infidel, Bub.

[lucifer666 (deleted)]

ninjabear wrote: "Freedom is an absolute, yet there must be limits to it or there is anarchy."
I never said that you take away all laws and everyone has complete freedom that would be just plain silly ....I am saying basic freedoms that most democratic countries were founded on like 'every person has rights' and 'everyone is equal' should be upheld no matter what terror is presented because once you take away these things we all start becoming like those we are so afraid of. Sometimes I feel we are fighting more for a word 'Democracy' then we are for the principles behind it .....Whats the point of winning with a Democracy flag held high if its ideals,...... our intentions, are then completely disfigured by our own trepidation and suspicion.
I don't know anything about that ad your speaking of what I do know is that all cultures are different and even though we may disagree with the stonings on the streets who are we to implement a better system for which they would have to follow? And is it even possible?... after all most countries in the Middle East disagree with alot of Western freedoms and laws many regarding our freedoms towards S-- and even abortion.

ninjabear wrote: "When some wank-job holds up a banner and screams for your blood, you'll expect us to back you up---they not have noticed you're little island yet, but you're still the Infidel, Bub."
I personally think thats a very weak argument Bear ....... its like wait till they hate and hit you and then you'll get where we are ....... my country Ireland has been rocked more times in one year by terrorism then America ever has ....we know all about Terrorism here! The difference in Ireland though was we asked the question Why? We didn't go down the path of "How dare they!.... who the hell do they think they are" It still amazes me that America does not ask the very potent and vital question Why do they hate us? Why do they attack us? Susan Sarandan was been interviewed lately on English telly and she described this as a child who has done something wrong .... we have the parent that just strikes out and scolds the child and we have the other parent that asks why he did it in the first place and try to explain why he shouldn't or where he's going wrong ......

"We seem to have stopped trying to change people or minds........ we just strike out!" - Susan Sarandon

[ninjabear]

Bub if you really know all about terrorism, you understand there is only one sure way to stop it---but that would be a peaceful solution, and no one seems to want that.
They insist on lopping off heads as fast as they can, but no one looks to the heart of the hydra...you know what I mean, don't you?

[lucifer666 (deleted)]

No .....Bear I don't think I do know what you mean if I'm being honest I could interpret what you say there as in agreement with my stand point .....but the lopping off of heads comment could also suggest blame towards the terrorists only....... who have done that and considering your stand point up to this on the way America deals with Terrorism and foreign affairs including the Israel situation I would be under the impression that the latter is more likely but I will reserve my opinion until you clarify further exactly what your stand point is.

ninjabear wrote: Bub if you really know all about terrorism, you understand there is only one sure way to stop it---but that would be a peaceful solution, and no one seems to want that.

Nor do people in power seem willing to even try ..... its easier to label them against our ways, anti Democratic or anti us instead of dealing with the true issues

[ninjabear]

Saw this on the news, been bothering me ever since...
Two young, angry, British Muslim men, complaining that British culture refuses to adapt to them---and well it should not!
The British---as any country on the planet---are rich in their own culture and traditions so "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
If I were immigrating to Japan, I'd learn Japanese. If I wanted to live in France, I'd learn French and if I wanted to move to England, I'd learn to speak English
Immigrants must adapt to their new environment and if they want to raise a family there, they'd better teach their children that this is how it is; otherwise find a place where they think just like you do.

[iswallowedabug (deleted)]

ninjabear wrote:
Immigrants must adapt to their new environment and if they want to raise a family there, they'd better teach their children that this is how it is; otherwise find a place where they think just like you do.


I didn't see the news item in question you were originally referring
to, so I can't comment on that story in particular, but as to your
comments....

We don't live in a free society if we tell all the people in it, or who
join it "you must be exactly like us and adapt to our way of life."

In a professed melting pot like America, at least, there is no one
cultural norm or heritage, and in my opinion, as long as someone's
faith tradition or heritage is not violating standards of human decency
and human rights and the established laws, it should be respected and
even nurtured. I'm not saying that the existing society should expend
all of its resources adapting to a new heritage, but for a free society to
be successul, it must not only protect the individual's rights to
religion and culture, but ideally would help preserve the traditions of
individual groups while also promoting their interaction with the
overall society.

I think it's counter productive to be saying that people should find
a place where other people think the way they do; isn't the ideal
to find a place where, regardless of what the other people think,
they also let you think the way you think already? Honestly, if
everyone thought the same way, life would be boring. And if
everyone thought the way I think, well, we'd be living in
Crazytown.

Personally, if I ever have children, I won't be teaching them "this
is how it is" -- I'll be teaching them never to accept the way things
are if it falls short of the way things should be. Never accept less
than what you deserve, and never stand by doing nothing while others
are getting less than what they deserve.

[lucifer666 (deleted)]

Hold on Bear I think I know what two young muslims your on about and I genuinely feel they had good reason to be annoyed about things. If these are the same two that were recently on the news in Britain .........Thet were two innocent muslim guys who boarded a flight went through all security checks but other passengers became suspicious and refused to allow the plane to take off ....and what was it that made the others so jittery .....They spoke arabic wore leather jackets, thick jumpers and checked their watches alot. They ended up being removed from the flight so it could head to its destination without them ....so I can understand why they may feel that the British Culture refuses to adapt to them

That night Patrick Mercer, the Tory Homeland Security spokesman, said "This is a victory for terrorists. These people on the flight have been terrorised into behaving irrationally.
"For those unfortunate two men to be victimised because of the colour of their skin is just nonsense."


I do worry about you Bear ...I have to say ....you seem to share the views of many people in America who genuinely scare me to be completely truthful with you ....Its like a kind of mentality that states We're American and so we're right and f*ck everyone else

And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.
Revelation 6:8