Superman Returns

[valarules (deleted)]

no one can top Reeves.

[fringey]

rayman wrote: For me this is the most anticipated movie of the year, and I hope it lives up to expectations. I still get goosebumps when I hear Marlon Brando voice and the musical score from the original film on the "Returns" trailer.

I waited a long time for this one. I finally got to see it yesterday. I have a few nitpicks, but was overall very impressed.

I did not like the darker reds, almost maroon, in the Superman costume, for one. I don't know why they went that way. I also thought Routh and Bosworth were both a little young for the parts. Both are younger than either Reeves or Kidder in the '78 film! I also have always said that anyone well-built can play Superman, but getting Clark Kent right was hard. To date, IMO, only Reeves has ever gotten Clark "right". Routh comes closer than anyone else, but still just doesn't quite get there. Bosworth does an excellent job as Lois, but I think the writers just didn't give her enough to do with the part. I also would have liked just a little more action. Of course, all of these little quibble can be straightened out in the sequel.

But, as I said, on the whole, the movie was great. And Kevin Spacey WAS Lex Luthor. Evil, humorous, but not cartoony like Hackman. In parts, he chilled me to the bone. Much more like the Lex of the comic books. My favorite line? When Lois tells Lex that his plan will kill millions and his reply is "Billions! The press has always underestimated me!". Brilliant!

Patrick
a.k.a. Fringey, The Fringe Element

[cooky37]

I got to go to a sneek preveiw of Superman Returned the Monday before the premeire. I liked the little secret about Jason. Ok they never came right out and Say the secret but I'm sure evreyone who saw the movie caught on. So I was a little upset when I finnished reading the novelization, and they left it out. Did they not tell the author the secret? was the Jason secret just thought of in editing? Personaly, i thought that The secret would be the corner stone for the following movies.

[wintermute]

Secret? That "secret" was about as obvious as say a piano hitting you at 80 miles an hour...

[cooky37]

well, there may be one or two people who have not seen the movie yet

[scryer41]

Though a nice film, it was like watching Superman The Movie. Only this time around, the effects were better and they made Sups the of an child. That bugged the crap out of me. Sups would never have let that happen!

But like I said, it was almost like watching the first Chris Reeves movie. Lex and his plan to use the earth as a means to control things. Sups and Lois flying in the sky. I almost expected them to start playing "Can You Read My Mind" while they were up there.

And finally, making Sups look like Christ while he was falling. That was a pretty ballsie thing to do in my opin. Sups may be a super man. But Christ was THE MOST Superman.

Like I said... that was my biggest problems with the film.

[cooky37]

Hey, you try to find a condum strong enough to stop super sperm
there have been many comparisons between christ and superman. the only son sent to save us all. they just down played it so as not to offend

I just hope they keep up the quality for the sequals

[scryer41]

I realize you're joking about the condom thing, but if Sups is suppose to be this high moral sort of guy, he wouldn't have slept with Lois in the first place. He would have married her and then had a child with her. But because of today's moral values, they made this film to fit it. The "Truth, Justice and the American Way" still holds. The American way today is to live life as you want and worry about the consequences later. Certainly, this is not how it use to be and if they are still going with the Superman as Christ-like, then they shouldn't have gone this way. You can't have it both ways.

[cooky37]

did you notice they didn't say "the American Way" in the movie.
that is one good thing you can say about Lois and Clark they waited till they got married. with the loose morals allowed on TV they didn't have to.

[scryer41]

Yeah, I noticed they hadn't said that. I just hate how Hollywood takes a good and decent role model and ruins it. I made a comment about this in another forums I run in. I said that there are no heroes left in the world. They've made Superman just as bad as the next guy when it comes to being -------- moral. Next thing you know, we'll start seeing Superman sleeping around with guys, too!

You can imagine the stink that caused. But it's true. If things continue the way they are, you can almost expect to see this sort of story plot coming along.

[iswallowedabug (deleted)]

Okay, I've just read through this thread, and I am either very
confused or am about to pick a nit.

People keep referring to "Reeves," but are you talking about "Reeve"?

George Reeves = Superman in the old TV series (and will be the subject
of an upcoming movie, Hollywoodland or something).

Christopher Reeve = Superman in the more recent movies before
this last one.

And historically, Superman was created by two Jewish men, so far as I
know, and many attributes and the Christ imagery have come to be
associated with the character along the way but weren't there in the
inception. Superman gets reinvented all the time, and to harp on
sexual misconduct, you might as well also criticize him for the equivalent
of ---------- for sleeping with someone outside his own species.

Furthermore, do you even know that there was premarital sex? He is
an alien lifeform, and maybe procreation works differently. There
certainly wasn't "sex" involved in what happened in Alien....

But I like the idea about Superman sleeping with guys... Routh
and Bale would make a really cute couple...Kent could go to
interview the billionaire Bruce Wayne, one thing leads to another....
(they have signed Heath on for Brokeback Batcave after all)

[scryer41]

iswallowedabug wrote: Okay, I've just read through this thread, and I am either very
confused or am about to pick a nit.

People keep referring to "Reeves," but are you talking about "Reeve"?

George Reeves = Superman in the old TV series (and will be the subject
of an upcoming movie, Hollywoodland or something).

Christopher Reeve = Superman in the more recent movies before
this last one.

We're refering to Chris... not George.

Quote:
And historically, Superman was created by two Jewish men, so far as I
know, and many attributes and the Christ imagery have come to be
associated with the character along the way but weren't there in the
inception. Superman gets reinvented all the time, and to harp on
sexual misconduct, you might as well also criticize him for the equivalent
of ---------- for sleeping with someone outside his own species.


I'm aware that two Jewish men created Sups. I also am aware that they based him on many of the old Jewish heroes. I was simply pointing out that this film presents Sups as more a Christ figure. The self sacrifice and then the fall back to Earth (where it looks like he is stretched out as if being crucified.)

As for the ---------- comment, well... it wouldn't be ----------. It would be Xenophilia. Anyway, it's long been established that Sups is all male and can mate with an Terran female. The genetics are close enough to allow it.

I also realize that Superman's character is always being upgraded. But the problem with ------ misconduct is that it shows kids (who are turning into young adults) that it's ok to do this. ------ Morality doesn't matter anymore. It is thrown out the window.

Quote: Furthermore, do you even know that there was premarital sex? He is an alien lifeform, and maybe procreation works differently. There
certainly wasn't "sex" involved in what happened in Alien....


When the film was first mentioned by the producers, they said that it would take place five years after the 2nd film. They also said that it totally ignored the last two films because they simply were so bad that they didn't want to be tie to them.

In the second film Clark and Lois do get it on. She realizes who he is and that's why it happens. But Clark makes her forget all that happened during that time. Hence the reason she isn't sure about how she got pragenet. But before she has her son, Clark has left the Earth to search for information about Krypton. That took five years. So... that's how I know that there was premarital --- between the two of them.

Quote:
But I like the idea about Superman sleeping with guys... Routh
and Bale would make a really cute couple...Kent could go to
interview the billionaire Bruce Wayne, one thing leads to another....
(they have signed Heath on for Brokeback Batcave after all)

Only one comment comes from my mouth when I read that. "OK.. YUCK!"

[InNYC]

iswallowedabug wrote:
But I like the idea about Superman sleeping with guys... Routh
and Bale would make a really cute couple...Kent could go to
interview the billionaire Bruce Wayne, one thing leads to another....
(they have signed Heath on for Brokeback Batcave after all)

I like the way you think iswallowedabug!

[iswallowedabug (deleted)]

scryer41 wrote: I also realize that Superman's character is always being upgraded. But the problem with ------ misconduct is that it shows kids (who are turning into young adults) that it's ok to do this. ------ Morality doesn't matter anymore. It is thrown out the window.

It used to be considered perfectly moral for a husband to abuse and
rape his wife because they were married; it used to be considered
perfectly moral and upright for thirteen year old girls to be married
to men in their fifties and then consummate the marriage. While
I agree with you that there's too much ------ misconduct in film
and it sends a bad message when you portray misconduct as
not only acceptable behavior, but as cool or desirable, I think we
might disagree on the what the definition of misconduct should be.

I think showing a man who obviously loves a woman so much that
he hesitates to save the world if it means losing her having
con------- relations with that woman is not the same thing as
careless, casual ---.

scryer41 wrote: When the film was first mentioned by the producers, they said that it would take place five years after the 2nd film. They also said that it totally ignored the last two films because they simply were so bad that they didn't want to be tie to them.

In the second film Clark and Lois do get it on. She realizes who he is and that's why it happens. But Clark makes her forget all that happened during that time. Hence the reason she isn't sure about how she got pragenet. But before she has her son, Clark has left the Earth to search for information about Krypton. That took five years. So... that's how I know that there was premarital --- between the two of them.

That's fair, then. See, I just watched the film as a stand-alone with
voice-overs from Brando, so that's not what I was thinking.

But I do have a question -- it's been so long since I've watched
"Superman II: the Wrath of Zod" that I don't remember the
chronology; did Superman sleep with Lois AFTER losing
his powers, or before? Because if it was after, one could argue
that part of the loss was the superhuman will-power...
Okay, I'm obviously reaching there to try and find a win-win.

[invisiblesteph]

So oldfashioned. ------ Morality means being married before having a kid?! Ive known plenty of ppl who have had s---ty childhoods because their parents wernt hsappily married and known kids who were really happy and they didnt have two married parents... The morals should be that you love your family and treat everyone with respect.. not that u at least have a wedding ring.